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Joined: 9/2/16 Posts: 8250
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Thank you for taking the time to intelligently respond (as always)

I wanted to take the time to acknowledge and reply, after all your thought and effort. Only had my cell phone last night and I considered it to tedious to respond with that device to this deep-dive commentary.

Some clarification: I poorly communicated. When I mentioned having that conviction of drawing a line, I intended to convey having a strong belief in that mindset instead of a legal judgment.

I don't believe most people (some but not most) believe that "...that black people just make more bad decisions than white people." I don't think even CUKev believes that (not that I need to be his spokesperson or legal counsel).

I do very much agree with you (and many more do probably) when you write "durable unfairness of our society towards people of color which began with slavery and has never been fully accounted for or remedied." It's indefensible.

Also fully agree with this "...hundreds of years of unpaid service and prohibiting an entire race of people from accumulating wealth." It's intellectually and morally dishonest for anyone to disagree with your point.

What's problematic is determining remedy that can work in implementation. There is no way that healing can happen in most disputes (and you know this better than me, not only culturally but also from your profession) unless people are, if not made whole (not possible), then the remorse is sufficient that people do all that IS possible and much is possible.

Solutions, I confess, are above my level of intellect and capacity.

I will respectfully disagree with the point that "Of course, if we change our ways and start to address the wealth gap and other broad generational inequities, there will still be crime and poverty experienced by people of all races. But that is beside the point."

It's part of the discussion, I propose. It can't be excluded. I agree that can't become a "catch point" or a snag in the conversation or can't allow white America to talk down to, excuse or reject the problems and corrective course of action.

Do I still see inequities in legal defense and railroading in the law or letting white crime off easy (especially wealthy or law enforcement)? Absolutely. When we see people serving decades or dying in prison that were later learned to be not guilty, there really is no way for them or their loved ones or communities to experience "justice."

I respect this viewpoint: "It is a transparent ploy to distract and avoid addressing the very legitimate grievances being expressed, and the bluster, arrogance, and righteous indignation of the posters who are carrying out only makes it more obvious."

That might be true subconsciously yet is that someone's intent? Maybe. Maybe not always. People - you, me, everyone on this board and in society - see news and experiences through different lens of so many variables. Yes, it's often simple to pick out rock heads and bad character yet we often label people so quickly and unjustly (I'm not talking anyone specific to the board right now; just generally speaking).

We love to jump to conclusions and rush to judgment. As for this board, I read cswilliam's accumulation of CUKev's comments. In totality, yes, it's not, at minimum, flattering yet I imagine that he would like to have an anthology (not sure I'm using that word correctly) of his most disliked quotes in one post.

I don't agree with everything CUKev has written. I have agreed (not as cheerleader) with difficult points of our American reality. However, I believe that we can show compassion to our problems as society. What can we do to be kind and helpful to each other, to seek understanding rather than judge, label and assume there is no possibility for improvement.

It's very kind of you to say. It's factual though that you are more educated, intelligent and accomplished than I. I'm comfortable recognizing it.

I agree silence in the face of something relating to our shared humanity is what allows a continuance of the problems we have in this country, this world. I respect any citizen's right to speak out. Without question, we need to learn about each other's experiences and pain and strive for a "just" America. If we only knew how good it could be and feel to do the right thing and correct "wrongs" and allow everyone to feel valued and included and with equal opportunity and respect, we'd be conducting ourselves with more of our potential and humanity.

Thank you for your post. We share far more common ground than disagreement. You illuminated much and it is helpful. I know it will marinate in my mind and in a day or two, it will come forward to be examined again. So I appreciate you for it.

(In response to this post by churdslick)

Posted: 08/02/2020 at 12:49PM


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Current Thread:
  CC** -- A Remote Outpost 08/01/2020 9:53PM
  Sounds like you are part of the Cancel Culture.. -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 5:16PM
  This might be BFFL 2.0. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/01/2020 10:40PM
  What’s BFFL? ** -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 11:07PM
  Not impressed. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/01/2020 11:09PM
  Cheap...** -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 11:26PM
  Nm** -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 11:32PM
  Cancel Culture link.... -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 5:20PM
  Great first paragraph EBN! -- gocu83 08/01/2020 9:00PM
  Re: Great first paragraph EBN! -- Gateway 08/01/2020 9:47PM
  Thanks for your kind words -- CUKev 08/01/2020 5:54PM
  I would agree....and a sad state of affairs if it does. ** -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 5:26PM
  BFFL. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/01/2020 11:03PM
  Wise post. I respect cswilliam's freedom of speech -- WinningLeadership 08/01/2020 11:05AM
  I am outing his bigotry - and you are defending it.. -- cswilliam 08/01/2020 09:55AM
  Sounds like CUKev occupies as much, or more, of your brain as Trump -- I No Longer Work Here 08/01/2020 09:21AM
  I am. Sure tha the Usual Suspects -- gocu83 08/01/2020 8:17PM
  Probably don’t know who Nick Sandmann is, but -- I No Longer Work Here 08/01/2020 9:08PM
  His obsession with me is creepy -- CUKev 08/01/2020 5:56PM
  Here’s one thing Kev NEVER does -- cswilliam 08/01/2020 09:41AM
  This is spot on -- churdslick 08/01/2020 12:52PM
  You resort to lying like cswilliam -- CUKev 08/01/2020 6:03PM
  The record speaks for itself -- churdslick 08/01/2020 6:36PM
  A lot here -- churdslick 08/01/2020 6:21PM
  Thank you for taking the time to intelligently respond (as always) -- WinningLeadership 08/02/2020 12:49PM
  Moral clarity and moral courage, both always in need. -- WinningLeadership 08/02/2020 1:14PM
  That is a helpful post. It crystallizes your objection -- WinningLeadership 08/01/2020 11:19AM