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churdslick

Joined: 11/29/14 Posts: 995
Likes: 705


A lot here


Here are some replies. Not sure I'll hit everything.

1. First off, I have no interest in demonizing people, and I don't think I did that here. What I did was call out statements that I find deplorable. And I stand by what I said. If you disagree with my reasoning, please let me know, and I will consider your perspective. But I'm not going to stay quiet in response to racist comments simply because the speaker might seem like an okay guy in other contexts. If he's a good and reasonable person, he should know better, and I'm not going to stay quiet just to avoid hurting his feelings. I'm going to speak out for what I think is right.

2. I don't think anyone here is talking about convicting someone if a crime based solely on speech. There are very narrow circumstances in which speech can support a conviction, but only when it is closely tied to conduct (e.g., fraudulent statements, inciting violence, tampering with jurors or witnesses, etc.). No one here is talking about convicting anyone for making racist comments, and as much as I detest racism, I am glad doing so would be unconsititutional.

3. When I referred to "drawing a line," I wasn't talking about criminal conviction; I was talking about what speech should be subject to removal from this or other similar forums. As I said, I ultimately come out against removal of the statements in question, in large part because of the nature of this forum as a place for unbridled dialogue and debate. If it were a school, I would absolutely feel differently. But here, I feel I have to take the bad with the good.

4. Of course, there will always be a degree of subjectivity involved in drawing the line I spoke of. That's why I think it's improtant for anyone regulating speech on this or any other private forum to do so with restraint. I think the board moderators here have done a good job, especially considering some of the childish behavior that they have to handle.

5. I don't believe and have never suggested that closing the wealth gap will end all inequality or crime. I don't think anyone thinks that. What I believe is that the racial inequality we see today is the result not simply of an accumulation of bad personal choice (which could only be true if you accept a racist belief that black people just make more bad decisions than white people), but rather the pervasive and durable unfairness of our society towards people of color which began with slavery and has never been fully accounted for or remedied. Simply aboloshing slavery and state sanctioned segregation is not enough for hundreds of years of unpaid service and prohibiting an entire race of people from accumulating wealth. Yet, many Americans believe that any form of reparations or affirmative action is just too unfair to the innocent white people alive today, who didn't personally participate in slavery but, as a race, enjoy massive advantages over people of color because of our original sin.

Of course, if we change our ways and start to address the wealth gap and other broad generational inequities, there will still be crime and poverty experienced by people of all races. But that is beside the point. The point is that black people, on average, are much more likely than whites to be imprisoned and in poverty. That is hardly surprising given our history, and until we do something about it, it will forever be a black mark on our foundinf philosophy that all men are created equal. That is the central principal of the movement that many on this board seek to cut down. They do it by painting eith broad brush strokes, highlighting unflattering but generally unrepresentative anecdotes about individual protesters, and stoking fear by associating the movement by know evils like communism, anarchy, and the death of Christian values. It is a transparent ploy to distract and avoid addressing the very legitimate grievances being expressed, and the bluster, arrogance, and righteous indignation of the posters who are carrying out only makes it more obvious.

6. I always enjoy hearing from you, and while I'm flattered by the nice things you said, I don't believe that I'm anymore educated, intelligent, or successful than you are. You're a good guy, and I admire your desire to give folks the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely try to do the same thing, but there comes a point where you gotta call it like you see it. And while I have read and considered many racist statements on this board, I don't view those statements as innocuous opportunities to learn a different perspective. I think they are toxic and should be called out as unacceptable. Silence or accomodating responses to the statements I'm referring to only legitimizes them. I think that's a huge problem in our country today (and one of the reasons we have a racist demogogue as president). I'm not going to legitimize racist speech by coddling its authors.

(In response to this post by WinningLeadership)

Posted: 08/01/2020 at 6:21PM



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Current Thread:
  Humor, understanding, humanness. -- A Remote Outpost 08/01/2020 9:53PM
  Sounds like you are part of the Cancel Culture.. -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 5:16PM
  This might be BFFL 2.0. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/01/2020 10:40PM
  What’s BFFL? ** -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 11:07PM
  Not impressed. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/01/2020 11:09PM
  Cheap...** -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 11:26PM
  Nm** -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 11:32PM
  Cancel Culture link.... -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 5:20PM
  Great first paragraph EBN! -- gocu83 08/01/2020 9:00PM
  Re: Great first paragraph EBN! -- Gateway 08/01/2020 9:47PM
  Thanks for your kind words -- CUKev 08/01/2020 5:54PM
  I would agree....and a sad state of affairs if it does. ** -- Banned-for-life 08/01/2020 5:26PM
  BFFL. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/01/2020 11:03PM
  Wise post. I respect cswilliam's freedom of speech -- WinningLeadership 08/01/2020 11:05AM
  I am outing his bigotry - and you are defending it.. -- cswilliam 08/01/2020 09:55AM
  I am. Sure tha the Usual Suspects -- gocu83 08/01/2020 8:17PM
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  His obsession with me is creepy -- CUKev 08/01/2020 5:56PM
  Here’s one thing Kev NEVER does -- cswilliam 08/01/2020 09:41AM
  This is spot on -- churdslick 08/01/2020 12:52PM
  You resort to lying like cswilliam -- CUKev 08/01/2020 6:03PM
  The record speaks for itself -- churdslick 08/01/2020 6:36PM
  A lot here -- churdslick 08/01/2020 6:21PM
  Thank you for taking the time to intelligently respond (as always) -- WinningLeadership 08/02/2020 12:49PM
  Moral clarity and moral courage, both always in need. -- WinningLeadership 08/02/2020 1:14PM
  That is a helpful post. It crystallizes your objection -- WinningLeadership 08/01/2020 11:19AM
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