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Joined: 11/29/14 Posts: 353
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Another mischaracterization of the law

Haynes doesn't support your position. It was a narrow decision and applied only to the unique language of the registration law at issue. Congress subsequently amended the registration requirement, and the Court upheld the amended version in US v Freed.

In Haynes, the statute at issue required registration only when a possessor had received a gun through a transfer that violated other provisions of the statute. If a transfer complied with the statute, registration was not required. Thus, registering was tantamount to an admission that the registrant had violated one of the other provisions in the law. (The Court found "the correlation between obligations to register and violations can only be regarded as exceedingly high, and a prospective registrant realistically can expect that registration will substantially increase the likelihood of his prosecution.") As a result, the court held that the violated the self-incrimination clause of the Fifth Amendment.

After Haynes, Congress amended the statute so that the registration requirement was no longer limited to guns that were received unlawfully. Instead, it applied to all transfers of weapons defined in the relevant provision of the National Firearms Act. As a result, the act of registering no longer amounted to an admission of criminal liability, and there was no longer any Fifth Amendment problem. Thus, in Freed, the Supreme Court upheld the amended requirement. The Court also affirmed the defendant's conviction for possession of an unregistered firearm under the Act, which is still in effect today (despite your belief that all gun registries are unconstitutional).

In short, Freed all but nullified Haynes except in extremely unusual cases that would not apply in this context.

Under Freed, there would be no Fifth Amendment problem if the government required possessors of assault weapons to register and then prohibited subsequent transfer to anyone other than the registered current owner. The registrant would not be incriminating him or herself simply by registering. He or she would be permitted to retain possession of the weapon. Prosecution could occur only after a subsequent transfer, resulting in someone other than the registered current owner possessing the weapon.

I have gone back and forth with you countless times and have no interest in doing so again. However, I feel the need to correct your mischaracterization of the law for the benefit of other readers. You are clearly not a lawyer, and you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to these opinions. I already demonstrated how your characterization of the Heller and Caetano opinions below were inaccurate. You clearly have an agenda and are misleading folks on these topics.
[Post edited by churdslick at 08/08/2019 9:53PM]

(In response to this post by 90_Buff)

Posted: 08/08/2019 at 9:47PM


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Current Thread:
Seems the guns come down to this.... -- 2buffsgrads  08/08/2019 12:34PM
  I'm in the camp that believes... -- CUKev 08/08/2019 3:46PM
  What's an assault weapon? ** -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 2:18PM
  And that's not correct -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 6:25PM
  The Vegas shooting? No pistol there. Columbine... -- The Midnight Toker 08/09/2019 12:18AM
  Pistols are the weapon of choice for criminals -- CUKev 08/08/2019 9:02PM
  What last ban? -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 4:52PM
  What do you mean “what last ban”? -- hawg1 08/08/2019 8:44PM
  AR15 isn't an assault type weapon -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 9:36PM
  Most folks who know nothing about -- HooYahBUFF 08/09/2019 08:20AM
  While I agree that they are tools as you -- BACKinBLACK 08/09/2019 09:37AM
  Very thoughtful response. Thanks. ** -- HooYahBUFF 08/09/2019 12:52PM
  Brady Bill. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/08/2019 5:19PM
  Oh so something that had no statistical impact -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 9:41PM
  Again, wrong on Heller -- churdslick 08/08/2019 10:11PM
  Yes. I'm an appellate lawyer. -- churdslick 08/10/2019 2:17PM
  Assault weapon -- IdaBuff 08/08/2019 2:27PM
  So you pretty much want all rifles banned -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 2:34PM
  Did knives kill 22 people in El Paso within minutes?.... -- The Midnight Toker 08/08/2019 6:05PM
  I asked, I didn't quote a statistic, but I found this study -- The Midnight Toker 08/08/2019 11:46PM
  Nope - he never said that. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/08/2019 4:56PM
  No that's essentially what he is describing -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 4:58PM
  Nope. Wrong. ** -- hawg1 08/08/2019 8:45PM
  Very sensible. I would add... -- Uppstate 08/08/2019 3:52PM
  Makes sense. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/08/2019 5:00PM
  Oh so now you are violating the 5th Amendment -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 4:59PM
  Didn't do that -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 9:39PM
  Nope - he never said that. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/08/2019 5:04PM
  Ah but he did -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 5:08PM
  You're advocating basically banning a rifle... -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 2:46PM
  Do you have any background in firearms? -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 4:49PM
  Well said, Hawg. ** -- churdslick 08/08/2019 10:42PM
  Cars can kill a lot of people easily -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 9:38PM
  Or just merely an inconvenient one. -- HooYahBUFF 08/09/2019 08:28AM
  No, I explained why it's a bad comparison -- churdslick 08/09/2019 09:39AM
  We'll have to agree to disagree. -- HooYahBUFF 08/09/2019 1:18PM
  Haha, oh boy. Now you're comparing to cars? -- churdslick 08/08/2019 10:36PM
  I’m ** -- hawg1 08/08/2019 8:48PM
  So, how long does it take to go get your gun?... ** -- The Midnight Toker 08/08/2019 1:15PM
  Seconds ** -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 2:19PM
  Who wants to go out for a beer with 90??? ** -- Gateway 08/08/2019 2:34PM
  Raises hand. ** -- HooYahBUFF 08/09/2019 08:29AM
  Take a real lawyer with you ** -- hawg1 08/11/2019 01:05AM
  Nope - puts words in people's mouths. ** -- Buffs4Ever 08/08/2019 5:05PM
  Yes because that's how lawful gun owners act -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 6:29PM
  Do you think households without a gun are foolish? ** -- buffaloaded 08/08/2019 8:47PM
  Re: Yes because that's how lawful gun owners act -- Gateway 08/08/2019 7:59PM
  When a poster goes to that place.... -- Gateway 08/08/2019 10:38PM
  We all know you've never been wrong ma'am -- HooYahBUFF 08/09/2019 08:34AM
  No I don't see things as absolutes -- 90_Buff 08/08/2019 4:55PM